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Part 3: "WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON 9-11?"
The Transcript
Jared Israel Interviewed by Mark Haim
WKOPN 89.5 FM (Missouri) Evening Edition * 2 April 2002

The transcript is in three parts. This is Part 3.
Part 1 can be read at http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/radio-1b.htm

[Posted 20 November 2002]

To hear WKOPN interview on Reaplayer format go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/audio/sideatp1.htm
=======================================

-- continued

** Jared Israel **

He said that after the first plane hit they didn't didn't think this was an act of terrorism. Well, here are some facts.

The FAA reported in Newsday that they knew at 8:20 that Flight 11 had been hijacked out of Boston.

Flight 11 hit the World Trade Center at about 8:45.

Now, what possible reason would anyone have to believe that a plane, which had been hijacked, and then hit the biggest building in the US, did it by mistake? That would be absurd.

And we have reports from, for instance, the Daily News in New York: "9:08 a.m. Police radio broadcasts, 'This was a terrorist attack. Notify the Pentagon.'" Daily News, New York, September 12th.

** Mark Haim **

Ok. We've got a caller. Hi, Caller, thanks for your patience.

** Caller **

I just got cut off and I don't appreciate his comments about the wife beating because I don't do that.

** Mark Haim **

No, that's an expression, you know, when you accuse somebody of something and ask him a question in an accusative way, it's like saying, "And do you still beat your wife?"

** Jared Israel **

You see, because you said, "Why do you have an agenda?" That assumes I *have* an agenda. So how can I answer?

You know, when you have a family and you raise criticisms of family members, it's because you love them and I rather passionately love the people in this country.

The experiences I had in the 60's were of working with people to change things. I saw the decency of the American people. I saw white people who have been affected by racism come to sympathize with black people. I saw people who had learned from birth that you don't question the government, question the government about Vietnam. I'm talking about soldiers. And I, myself, by the way, started out, if I may say, when I was a young man, as somebody who would have agreed with you completely, that is I was completely opposed to people who were questioning. So I myself have gone through this kind of change. And I think the American people, and people around the world feel this about us, have many wonderful traits, openness to ideas and so on.

But I'm talking about criminal actions. I'm saying we have evidence that suggests criminal action. And we know that powerful people throughout history have been capable of such things in the interests of money. That's been true throughout history. Why would our country be an exception?

[** NOTE: At this point a man called in and raised two questions to which Jared Israel responded. The questions were:

1) What about the 4th plane, the one that crashed in Pennsylvania?

2) What about the accusation that the smooth way the twin towers collapsed suggested explosive charges had been planted in the buildings? **]

** Jared Israel **

Well, we're trying, at least at Emperor's Clothes, to stick to what we're sure of. We really don't know what happened with that plane in Pennsylvania. We looked into it a bit and, while it was a terrible tragedy, it was secondary because things were so much clearer with flight 77, the one that hit the Pentagon.

On the question of the WTC towers, I've heard arguments on both sides and we've stayed pretty much away from it though we reported a little on what some people have said, because we really don't know.

However, I can tell you this: the firefighters in New York, in their publication, have been very upset, not only with the crass way Mayor Giuliani dealt with them, at a certain point trying to stop them from finding the bodies of their brothers, but also because of the haste with which the structural material was removed and melted down, instead of having a proper fire investigation to determine cause.

But there are a lot of possible explanations other than that there was a demolition.

So since we don't know the answers on those two points, we've not tried to give opinions. Indeed, in general we're *not trying to give opinions*. We're not trying to point out suspicious circumstances. We're trying to focus on what we can be sure of and then make logical deductions that would follow, without prejudice and without emotion, if we can. So that's why we're dealing with the reported behavior of key leaders and then analyzing what those reports mean.

For example, regarding the reports we have about planes and their movements and when those reports were made - those things we can be sure of because the reports are in print. That is, we can be sure that they wrote that at a particular time. So we try to deal with that on Emperor's Clothes.

** Mark Haim **

Hi, Caller.

[Caller asks if Jared Israel knows anything about a report prior to 9-11 that Attorney General Ashcroft would be using Air Force One instead of public transportation.]

** Jared Israel **

No I don't. Here's an important thing. People have healthy suspicions which I'm not trying to put a damper on. But when an event occurs, there are necessarily certain coincidences which you can then mistakenly see as causative. Because naturally a whole bunch of things will happen and some of them will look like they're related. So that's why we try to hone in on things that are specifically related to this event: procedures that were not followed. What are the procedures? We have them on the Website. We have the report of the Joint Chiefs of Staff which says that the first thing the FAA does when there's a hijacking is notify the Secretary of Defense. But according to Assistant Secretary of Defense Victoria Clarke, it was she who first told Rumsfeld about the World Trade Center attack. And after that, what did he do? According to Clarke, he stayed in his office until after the Pentagon was hit. He did not join her in the National Military Command Center. Now, this is an unbelievable behavioral response. It can't be explained by saying there were no hijackings for many years. This woman comes in and tells Rumsfeld the two biggest buildings in the New York have just been hit by hijacked planes and Rumsfeld says, "I have to make some phone calls."

What would be the reason for him staying out of the National Military Command Center for 45 minutes or more? What would be the *sane* reason? The only reason that we could think of was that if he wasn't in there he couldn't be held responsible for the lack of response that he knew was going to take place. So it was important for him *not* to be in there at that time.

The same thing happened with Richard Myers. He's acting head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on September 11th. On September 13th he's going for a nomination hearing to be made head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This is the most important day of his life because on this day, that he is acting chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - and he's an Air Force General with thousands of hours of time flying fighter planes - this is the only day the United States has ever been attacked from the air.

Myers claims he is at Senator Max Cleland's office in the morning - 8:40 Eastern Time. He sees on TV that the first plane has hit the World Trade Center. He claims on Armed Services Radio that at that point he went in and met with Cleland for an hour. Nobody called him and told him that a second plane had hit, that the air corridor had been closed between Washington and Cleveland, that a plane had been hijacked in Ohio and was flying back to the Pentagon.

Then he also claims that when he walked out of Cleland's office, he was handed a portable phone and it was the head of NORAD - the North American Aerospace Defense Command - telling him the Pentagon had been hit.

Now these are unbelievable assertions. Doesn't the man have a beeper? Doesn't the man have a cell phone? Doesn't the man have a secretary who knows where he is? General Myers was, after all, acting head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US military. Wouldn't anybody inform him that planes were being hijacked and flying into buildings?

And you know what Myers said he talked to Max Cleland about? He claims he sat there and they discussed the danger of terrorism. Now this is like a satire. It seems unbelievable.

** Mark Haim **

Hi, Caller. Can you make a very quick pointed question?

** Caller **

Yeah. I'm extremely concerned that what we've just heard for the last hour parallels exactly the anti-Semitic view that's been pushed throughout the Arab world and into parts of Europe that this was a conspiracy and that Jews in particular were forewarned about the attacks on the World Trade Center so that they would not go to work that day.

** Jared Israel **

That's a lie, though. That, of course, isn't true.

** Caller **

You're playing into the hands of the anti-Semitic people.

** Jared Israel **

Because we have a short time left, let me say, first of all, that I'm Jewish. Second of all I loathe anti-Semitism. This gentleman is Jewish, too.

The anti-Semitic stuff was started three days after 9-11 by General Gul, the former top CIA- connected person in Pakistan. He told MSNBC that "The Jews" must have done it. This line has been pushed by Fox TV which is, in my opinion, a very questionable institution and it's been pitched by some fascistic people on the Internet, trying to turn this situation, which is always done when there's a problem, trying to turn this situation, which has zero connection with Jewish people into an attack on Jews so that ordinary people, who don't want to question the US government, because it's such a horrifying idea, have a convenient group to pin it on. A scapegoat group. And that's what the whole business is with saying that all the Jews stayed home from the World Trade Center. Which is an insult to the many Jewish people and many other people who were friends of theirs who died on that day.

** Mark Haim **

Caller, does that answer you question?

** Caller **

Well, I would agree but you're playing into the hands of those people who are doing exactly what you are complaining about.

** Jared Israel **

Well, the problem is that what I'm saying, is true. And we can't *not* tell the truth because liars will try to twist it. So because I agree with the danger here, I'm going to post, within the next week, post an exhaustive look at the attempt to twist this into anti-Semitism - which I know is very prevalent. And, which I am entirely opposed to. (6)

** Mark Haim **

Caller, I appreciate you getting in on this. We have no time left, but thank you so much for calling.

** Caller **

Thank you very much.

** Mark Haim **

Jared we are right now just about out of time and there's so much I wanted to touch on that we haven't even started on. One caller asked about the efforts to get this out to more people. I wanted to talk about the political implications of those of us in the peace movement raising these concerns. We also haven't touched on bin Laden at all.

** Jared Israel **

No, which I'd love to talk about.

** Mark Haim **

I'm wondering might you be available to come back and finish this issue next Tuesday night?

** Jared Israel **

Sure. Why not. Anytime you want.

*** To Read Part 1, go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/radio-1a.htm ***

+++ Further Reading follows the fundraising appeal +++

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**********************
Further Reading:
**********************

To hear WKOPN interview on Reaplayer format go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/audio/sideatp1.htm

For a full list of Emperor's Clothes articles on 9-11, go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm

6) As of 20 November several articles related to anti-Semitism have been posted. For instance, see:

1) "Reader: 'I'm Unimpressed with Attempts to Link Israel and 9-11'", at
http://emperors-clothes.com/letters/holm.htm

2) "Ari Fleischer, Iraq, Jews, Jared Israel & the BBC ...Letters and Replies," at
http://emperors-clothes.com/letters/joan.htm

3) The Return of the 'Protocols of Zion': We Take a Closer Look..." by Jared Israel at
http://emperors-clothes.com/antisem/closer.htm

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