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Interview with UN Special Envoy
Terje Larsen on Jenin: 'The Scene was Horrifying and
Shocking'
Interview April 18, 2002
[Posted 4 May 2002]
Note: You can read a reply
to Mr. Larsen by an Israeli doctor who was in charge
Israel's medical team at Jenin, at
http://emperors-clothes.com/debate/jenin-dr.htm
=======================================
Interviewers: Bill Hemmer,
Christiane Amanpour
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR:
Back here in Jerusalem now, about -- about 90 minutes
ago, Terje Larsen, the U.N. envoy to the Middle East was
talking with us here at CNN. In fact, it was after his
visit to Jenin, that refugee camp earlier in the day, and
again, we talked about his description about what he saw
inside the camp. His conversation now with Christiane
Amanpour a few moments ago here in Jerusalem.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN
CORRESPONDENT: What happen in Jenin is still a source of
major contention for both the Israelis and the
Palestinians. The Palestinians are demanding an
international investigation. The Israelis said they have
done nothing wrong there, apart from being engaged in a
major battle. The U.N. has been asking for 11 days for
access to Jenin, particularly the refugee camp in order
to make their own independent assessment. Today, the U.N.
special representative here finally got that approval. He
is joining me now, Terje Larsen. Thank you very much
indeed. What did you find when you went into the Jenin
refugee camp?
TERJE ROED-LARSEN, U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY: Well, went in
today with the U.N. team together with Peter Hansen, the
head of UNRWA, the relief and works agency for the
Palestinians, and the scene was horrifying and shocking.
Both those concerns what we saw, what we heard, and what
we smelled. The smell was horrible. Decaying corpses
below the rubble. And we saw, for instance, a 12-year-old
boy being -- with some people digging with their hands,
they were digging him out, and burned completely,
demolished body.
We saw, for instance, two brothers who were digging out
their father and their other brothers below the rubble,
the corpses in pieces. It was horrible, an absolutely
unbelievable scene. And what we also know after our visit
is that must be about 2,000 people which do not have
roofs above their heads. They need shelter immediately.
We also know that there is an acute need of food, water,
and medicine. The electricity system is completely
destroyed. The water pipes are cut. It is a scenery of
catastrophe of major proportions. It looks as if there
has been an earthquake there.
AMANPOUR: The Israelis deny all the charges of a massacre.
They say that what happened here was a very fierce
battle, and they admit there were major casualties, both
on their side and on the Palestinian side. What do you
think happened? Are you ready to make accusations, or are
you basically now evaluating? What do you think is the
reality of what happened?
LARSEN: I cannot judge at this point in time. I can only
report on what I saw, and what I heard, and what I
smelled. I cannot say that there wasn't a massacre, but I
cannot say there was a massacre. But I think that the
question of an international investigation is a highly
relevant question on the basis of what I saw, and I think
it isn't unnecessary to penetrate to find out exactly
what is the situation there, and why did it happen.
AMANPOUR: So, what needs to happen now, what needs to
happen? Aid agencies have said they can't begin to search
under the rubble because there is not the equipment. What
are you asking for now?
LARSEN: First and foremost, we are asking for two things.
One is that international search and rescue teams are
allowed to go in immediately, and there are reasons for
criticizing severely the government of Israel for not
themselves conducting a search and rescue operation, and
what I could see for the few hours I was there today, the
people with their bare hands digging out bodies -- this
should have been done by the Israeli military occupiers
for the time they were there.
Now, the government of Israel had to give access -- to
give us access with the proper expertise, expertise and
the proper instruments for doing such a search in an
effective manner. Then, secondly, equally important is
that we get in food, medicine, and water to the needy
population, and also to build temporary shelters for the
thousands of people, about half of them being under the
age of 15, who now are suffering in there. And also --
this, of course, comes second -- there is a situation of
anarchy and chaos not only in the refugee camp, but in
the city and in the governor -- in the government. The
Palestinian Authority's institutions are more or less
destroyed. There's no security apparatus. There's no
police functions. There is no apparatus to take care of
law and order. The situation is very dangerous. And I
would like to add that the situation is not only
dangerous for the population, the situation is also,
security-wise, dangerous for Israelis and Palestinians
alike. Because it may be that the infrastructure of the
terrorists have been destroyed or damaged here, but what
is more important is that there is now built a mental
infrastructure of hatred and aggression, which is very
dangerous.
AMANPOUR: The Palestinians have charged the Israelis with
war crimes. They point to not allowing ambulances
throughout the battles, and even thereafter from
evacuating wounded, even the dead. They point to the use
of human shields, and, of course, the Israelis accuse
Yasser Arafat of war crimes for sending suicide bombers
into Israel. What, in terms of international law
happened, do you think? How does one describe not
allowing ambulances in, using human shields?
LARSEN: I will not at this stage go into a legal
discussion, but what I can say is that it is evident,
because international humanitarian organizations have not
been given access, that there are very clear violations
of basic humanitarian principles, but I would not like to
go into the legal issues right now, but it's evident from
what I saw today that the question is relevant.
AMANPOUR: You are going to have or gather together a
meeting of some of the major donors to deal, presumably,
with the devastation, the infrastructure devastation,
that has taken place over the last several weeks in the
Palestinian territories. What is the level of need there
in the territories?
LARSEN: I cannot assess that here and now. There will,
next Wednesday on the 24th in Oslo, be a major donor
meeting where my office, the World Bank, the
International Monetary Fund, and others will give an
assessment of what is needed here, and -- but it is very
evident that a major donor effort is required, because
what we have being reporting from Jenin
today is also by and large the case in many other of the
other Palestinian cities.
AMANPOUR: In terms of the civilian infrastructure.
LARSEN: Exactly. And also, as concerns rebuilding of
infrastructure, and not the least rebuilding Palestinian
institutions, which can carry the society for the next
months because the Palestinian Authority institutions are
so damaged that they're not very well functioning any
longer.
AMANPOUR: On that note, thank you very much indeed for
joining us.
LARSEN: Pleasure being with you.
EMPEROR'S CLOTHES IS UNDER ATTACK! (See below)
********************************
FURTHER READING
********************************
* ''ISRAELI DRONE FILMS PALESTINIANS 'FAKING FUNERAL
IN JENIN''' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/debate/drone.htm
* SUICIDE BOMBING LEADER: 'MY PEOPLE WANT FREEDOM,
THEIR RIGHTS.'" at
http://emperors-clothes.com/debate/portrait.htm
* "ISRAELI RESERVIST: 'THE WHOLE WORLD CONSIDERS US
TO BE MONSTERS'" at
http://emperors-clothes.com/debate/kramer.htm
* "UN ENVOY LARSEN: 'JENIN WAS HORRIFYING AND
SHOCKING'" at
http://emperors-clothes.com/debate/larsen.htm
* "ISRAELI DOCTOR AT JENIN: 'I COULDN'T STAND THE
LIES' " at
http://emperors-clothes.com/debate/jenin-dr.htm
* "CAIRO PRESS: 'THE MOST REVOLTING MASSACRES KNOWN
TO MANKIND' at
http://emperors-clothes.com/debate/cairo.htm
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